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Permalink Reply by Alastair Armstrong on June 30, 2009 at 1:04pm

Hi Gary

There are a lot of people including some of our very own (University academics), I am sure you have an idea who I am referring to, who are saying a lot, but producing very little!!!!

I also feel there is a lot of disinformation out there as to the products these people (refer to above) are selling as a wonder-product, where in reality it is not what it seems, and in essence may not be suited at all to our country and/or climate (i.e. Thin Film). Thus we have a lot of expectation and very little delivery and real info.

Having said that..
There is a lot of interesting and exciting development in the photovoltaic market happening in the USA, but still Japan leads the world in current PV manufacturing and output.
With sufficient proof to make this statement..
Sanyo make the best photovoltaic (solar electric) panel in the world today (by far..) and are constantly researching and improving with real products all the time!!
Regards
Alastair
MD of SunSync Solar Technologies.
www.sunsync.co.za

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Permalink Reply by Peter Kowalski on July 1, 2009 at 10:02pm

Alastair,

You seem disillusioned with "thin-film" solar??

"where in reality it is not what it seems, and in essence may not be suited at all to our country and/or climate" Can you explain why you feel this way about a product that has received the backing of the europen Bank (40million Euro) equalled by Richmont.

Surely these entities would not be investing close to a Billion Rand if they did not see it as a viable product - What evidence do you have that the product won't do what it says on the cover?

"who are saying a lot, but producing very little!!!!" care to clarify that statement?

PK

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Permalink Reply by Gary W. Reilly on July 2, 2009 at 10:15am

Dear All,

The response to my question has created 9 reply's both via Designmind and my personal email. This is exactly what I wanted fro this discussion. I have 9 reply's and 9 opinions.

Surely this goes to show that we all need to contribute to this topic and all come to agreement on certain aspects of the Solar Market.

I heard in a talk in Dubai once that if we took a wall-sized map of the world - a South African 5c piece on the Sahara Desert would power the entire World, yet we all sit saying yes to PV, no to thin-film,yes to thin-film, no to battery quality, yes to battery quality, no to saying a lot, yes to bye-laws,no to bye-laws,yes to saying a lot and no to actually doing something. As Dave Liddell said there are a lot of Solar installers yet very little subsidies. What does this mean for the industry as a whole??

In 1988 my father was in Germany on a conference and saw a solar cover that was draped over the Army tents and all their power and water was powered through these covers. 21 years later and we seem to have remained stagnant.

Lets use this discussion to get all interested parties commenting and actually making a difference to all our perceptions - and in the end this will lead to much greater things, of that I can be of use; but not with 40 000 different opinions.

Our energy-generation will continue to be dependent on coal until we can all come together and show that there are viable alternatives...

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Permalink Reply by Alastair Armstrong on July 2, 2009 at 12:33pm

Gary

Please post all replys you received (the ones via your email) on this topic.
I am sure all would be interested in them!! Thank you.

In terms of the questions asked by Peter to me, I will find 10 minutes later today to draft the reply.

Regards
Alastair

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Permalink Reply by Peter Kowalski on July 2, 2009 at 1:30pm

Gary,

A large part of your answer lies in the demographics of SA. The large majority of our country still lives "hand mouth" and for this reason we lag behind the 1st world because their time is spent on improving technologies where our time is pent on correcting a social imbalance. That said, we have taken some interesting strides forward in the last year or two.

I lived and worked in the UK for most of my professional career and when I made the decision to come home I thought I'd be coming back into the "dark ages" in terms of sustainable design and renewal energies. I have been quite surprised at the SA green revolution - certainly not the "dark Age" I was expecting.

The recent buy back tariff confirmation via NERSA and even the recent hike in the base electricity price are both good news for the steps need to be taken to move forward.

Copenhagen later this year will no doubt force SA to commit to carbon emission cuts and once that is in place then you'll find that legislation on green building will follow suit.

Patience Gary - It's coming.

PK

ps. Alastair, looking forward to your comments.

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Permalink Reply by Gary W. Reilly on July 2, 2009 at 6:54pm

Hi Gary,

Thanks.

I know of a couple of similar ideas (Building Integrated Photovoltaics) that are being produced - but none based on thin-film yet.

You also know that a thin-film plant is under construction in Cape Town?


Cheers, Dave

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Permalink Reply by Peter Kowalski on July 4, 2009 at 11:06am

Hi Dave,

That said plant has received planning permission in Paarl, has it not?

Alastair, your 10minutes up - I'm eagerly awaiting your response to my queries.

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Permalink Reply by Gary W. Reilly on July 4, 2009 at 11:38am

Hi Peter,

The Dave mail :-) was copied and pasted by me, but I met with him personally on Thursday and he says that all is on track....but I'll mail him and get him involved in this discussion proper...

What is your take on thin-film and how powerful is it in the market right now? Obviously things always get better, but solar seems to have taken a lot longer than almost every other technology out there, the only other one I can think of that has taken just as long if not longer is Virtual Reality..

Let me know,
Gary

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Permalink Reply by Dave Liddell on July 5, 2009 at 9:10am

Looks like a good discussion building up!

The thin-film plant in Paarl is still in the planning/raising capital stage. However, it looks like the project is going ahead. There is also a large PV (silicon) module plant already operating, but it exports everything.

I suspect the real reasons for the lack of significant progress in renewable energy in SA are:

1. Low real cost of electricity - about to change!
2. Lack of finance and subsidies.

If households could buy SWH and PV systems like other consumer goods (eg cars), with small or no cash down and paying off over say 10 years, the logjam would break. The payback on SWH at current and projected electricity prices is now about 3-4 years, and the savings would easily cover a bank loan - and this is without any direct subsidies.

I propose that we lobby for a finance fund (say through the IDC) to put up the initial capital to pay for SWH, and then PV. This could also provide lower interest rates than commercial loans.

Any ideas?

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Permalink Reply by Gary W. Reilly on July 5, 2009 at 9:42am

Dave,

This is all good and well but if I were the IDC and I had funding set aside for renewable/green energy - again the question would be asked - what are the latest advances in solar i.e. what would my funding actually get me and how effective is the technology over a decent amount of time, excluding the amortization of the current technology.

If its just for SWH, then I can see the value, but to actually get to a point where the green electricity generated is more than whats required, should be our aim. Thus the 'rich' would generate extra (charity) electricity; which in turn can be redirected to the 'poor' - this is a tangible way of helping those less fortunate.

If everyone had SWH's in the country right now, what would the energy saved be used for and what would that mean for the man in the street or are the corporate fat-cats going to play on that margin too?!?

I'm still hoping to find the most powerful & cost-effective solar technology available at present...

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Permalink Reply by Peter Kowalski on July 5, 2009 at 1:17pm

Woah!!!

Gary hold the phone! We've only just had feed in tariffs approved by NERSA for those Private Entities out there to start considering investing in RE that they can realise a return on back into the national grid. Expecting ESKOM to have infrastructure in place to help the individual to be doing the same is asking a little much - That said I totally agree with you that this should be our ultimate goal.

Re the Thin Film Solar: here is what I have read to date: funding is NOT an issue as the EIB has already confirmed €40 million to the plant in Paarl the balance is coming from the government and Richmont (i.e. the Rupert family) - Planning permmission has been approved.

If your wondering about the relevance of thin film solar then just have a look at the progress Aleo Solar are making globally. They were signed on as the sole distributor for Johanna Solar (sole licence holder to manufacturer of Prof Alberts panels globally except Africa) to distribute these panels and have now started acquiring distribution chains in the US. If they feel there is a market for "their" product in an RE saturated market like California then CIGGSe has to be something special.

Alastair has gone a little quiet?

Permalink Reply by Gary W. Reilly on July 6, 2009 at 1:25pm

Wow, this is a master-class of information and I am really blessed to hear all these technological advances.

Peter, I understand that everything on this rock takes time and process - but in my night job :-) I always say that you need to have your end goal in sight, thus paving the way for all, if not some of your endeavours to be fixed on the prize.

Now governments worldwide, particularly in Africa, are slow to pay up those tariffs or introduce new methodologies and that is not exactly viable at present, unless there is good returns for them,as a government but certainly not for the people. That's why we are all doing it ourselves. Yes new laws assist us in our own private business, but the private sector is always ahead of government and this gap needs to be closed to ensure success in real-time on issues such as energy, recycling and job creation. But transparency is what is needed and we not getting that at present. Regardless of NERSA getting approval and ESKOM??? having the infrastructure in place - it is a start but it is not concurrent with definitive trends within the alternative energy source discussions taking place around the world. No-one likes change and how do you deflect power from coal to the sun without cutting and bruising individuals whose wealth has come from coal for 4 generations....humour me here, just bringing those fat-cats & transparency on board again.

All this information about PV, Thin-film...etc is all good and amazing to me; but we need to stay focused on the ULTIMATE goal (and that is not to feed more fat-cats) which is 1.) to find sustainable alternative energy sources, thus reducing our need for coal and carbon-based fuels AND 2.) to ensure that ALL South Africans have access to economically viable electricity.

But I do value all the comments made and I hope this continues, it's wonderful to share best practices for the good of all our needs...

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